Originally, Internet Atheist Hemant Mehta made a video titled “28 Questions for Christians Who Still Oppose Gay Marriage.” Though aimed at a general audience, practicality forced me to answer as if he spoke to me directly. Hence my post Atheist H. Mehta’s 28 Questions for Christians Who Still Oppose Gay Marriage. Ben, a fellow WordPress blogger who runs the Meerkat Musings site, took an interest and responded to my answers to Hemant’s questions. His full response is https://meerkatmusings.co.uk/questions-answers-and-more/ Here is an abbreviated version of his commentary: parts I deem essential (C), with my responses: (R).
{C1: “Naturally Sunbeam can only answer for themselves, whereas in a general sense, there is a disproportionate to [focus on?] homosexuality from organised religion at the expense of other, more serious issues. The world would be better if religion stopped concerning itself with same-sex couples and focused on issues like poverty, famine, climate change, etc. ‘Sin’ is an interesting concept——the Bible prohibits wearing wool and linen fabrics in one garment. Is this considered a sin of equal weight to others? Is it readily opposed with the same zeal as same-sex relationships?” ~
R1: First, Old Testament prohibitions like the one mentioned were never part of Christianity. They were part of Judaism and the age before it. Perhaps you can ask an Orthodox Jew what the significance is. And they were never labeled an abomination or something that deserved the death penalty, unlike homosexual behavior. And such a penalty for homosexual behavior was never a part of Christianity either.}
{C2: “Regardless how the earliest churchmen interpreted the Bible, why should any nation be bound to the rules of one interpretation/religious text? Biblical law cannot and does not represent everyone. Therefore, why should it be the standard that’s forced down everyone’s throats?” ~
R2: Why pick on Christianity? *All* laws are someone’s interpretation of right and wrong. Therefore, why should *any* law be “shoved down everyone’s throats?” To be fair and consistent, you would need to advocate anarchy, with no laws whatsoever.}
{C3: “I include this question and answer for the sake of completeness.” R3: Good idea.}
{C4: “Many flavors of Christianity do spend considerable effort trying to prevent same-sex marriage, though there are many far more important concerns. I would ask Sunbeam to consider that as a whole, Christianity could focus on these concerns instead of same-sex marriage. When opponents stop fighting against it, there will not be time spent fighting for it.”~
R4: I’ve done what I can to address other concerns and inspire others to do likewise. To complain about fighting for something is a disguise for wanting your opponent to go belly up on an issue so that your position can advance unimpeded. If it’s improper to fight for a particular worthwhile cause, then it’s wrong to fight for any or all worthwhile causes. Let your opponent/s push forward, while you succumb to their whims. No thanks.}
{C5: Again, Sunbeam can only answer for themselves but let’s face facts—–Mehta’s point is valid. The religious right has long been obsessed with other’s sex lives. This is part of the justification for the assault on LGBT rights. The religious right disapproves of certain sexual practices. This disapproval extends to a history where various sexual practices were considered illegal as recently as 1990. Therefore, Mehta is right to ask the question of the religious right——–there is an obsession with other people’s sex lives. I’ve experienced this directly. A complete stranger asked me if I’d had sex outside marriage. All I wanted to know was how to find a bank! And he was asking in a religious, Christian context.” ~
R5: This is the Card Stacking Fallacy in action. That is, a dishonest tactic of showcasing all examples of things that support your argument, while dismissing/ignoring all examples that contradict your argument. Now how many Christians never ask about your sexual history? All of them save for one atypical person? And non-Christians frequently stick their nose into other people’s sex lives, such as asking a man if he’s getting any p****.}
{C6: “A couple that fight all the time will create an unhappy environment. They [the children?] will struggle to avoid this……………………………..” R6: I simply answered Mehta’s loaded question to the best of my ability. Two can play at his game, and I could ask: Do you think children are better off with two loving straight parents, or two gay parents who fight all the time?}
{C7: “Atheism is merely the absence of belief. It’s not a system embedded in society that can indoctrinate someone (unlike the Church).” R7: Nonsense. Atheism is a worldview that indoctrinates just like a religion. The absence of belief becomes filled up with Communism, Libertarianism, Modernism, Relativism, etc. Atheists in power have tried to aggressively squash religion, instead live and let live.}
{C8: “That’s Sunbeam’s ideal and that’s fine! Where it would not be fine is if they tried to manipulate society into having this be the only acceptable form of family.” ~
R8: Though my ideal should not be the only acceptable form of family, other constructs without two qualities should be unacceptable. 1) Being a man/woman couple. Without it you are saying that either fathers are unnecessary, mothers are unnecessary, or both. 2) Being financially stable. Without financial stability, society is forced to foot the bill for what should be the parent’s responsibility.}
{C9: “Who can say how a member of the LGBT community feels about someone who is dead set against equality for them? Some might see past it to consider the religious person a friend. Some might see it as a deal-breaker. Sunbeam’s experience is but one experience—–I know of many stories of families torn apart because parents and siblings cannot accept a gay son/daughter/brother/sister. Sending the message that the gay relative is not worthy of the same rights is going to be incredibly hurtful and damaging……………….” ~
R9: As one who has pushed for gay rights throughout my life (necessities such as jobs, housing, and not being beat up on the street), I am offended by being labeled as someone who denies essential rights. The only things I have *ever* objected to are lascivious gay parades which even include children, same-sex “marriage” (which everyone on Earth understood as nonsense until AD 2000), and gay sex, that caused so many to die horrible deaths from AIDS.}
{C10: “This is pretty key, isn’t it? Same-sex marriage has had precisely zero impact on Sun-beam, so, why do they oppose it? Is same-sex marriage a ‘bad thing’? Who is harmed by it?” ~
R10: No, the key is caring about other people. Throughout history widespread promiscuity and homosexuality have served to tear down civilizations and heterosexual monogamy has served to build and maintain civilizations. This is documented by anthropologist J. D. Unwin in his book Sex and Culture. That’s beside wanting people to not have something that prevents their having a relationship with God.}
{C11: “Is this relevant? How many children are going to ask how couples have sex?! ……………………….” C11: Probably irrelevant. And Meerkat is probably right since he is a parent, and I am not. My purpose was to not leave any of Hemant’s questions unanswered, and to provide a more sensible conclusion than the one he made simply to make Christians look ridiculous. I have achieved that end.}
{C12: “One person’s truth is another’s falsehood. What is considered infallible to the Evangelical is considered heresy to a Muslim, Sikh or even another form of Christian.” ~
R12: “Relativism is an especially insidious and nonsensical form of Modernism. Two and two always make four, never three or five. Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, and all flavors of Christians have been united against adultery, fornication, and homosexuality for centuries.}
{C13: “The Evangelical Church has no more of a valid claim than any other faith. The policy of suppressing the rights of others on the grounds of religious beliefs is merely bigotry in disguise, especially when what Evangelicals fight against has no bearing on their lives whatsoever. Don’t want same-sex marriage? Don’t marry someone of the same sex. Let same-sex couples be.” ~
R13: I am not an Evangelical, so you can take your argument against them to someone who is. And every time two women get “married”, that is two less women available for single men. If all women “married” other women, it would wipe out heterosexual coupling altogether via unavailability.}
{C14-15: “I included the last two questions for the sake of completeness and have nothing to add or say about them.” R14-15: Good idea.}
{C16: “I can turn this around most thoroughly. ‘In other parts of the world LGBT people have been tortured and killed for who they are. Secondly, many Christians probably lie about having suffered terrible persecution when they have not.’ The LGBT community also faces persecution around the world————there are countries that imprison or even execute homosexuals. In other countries they are denied employment and housing. The extent to which the LGBT community and Christians get persecuted is disproportionate…………..” ~
R16: Yes, you have properly turned my response to Hemant around. However, Hemant does not live in such parts of the world. He lives in the United States, and in an especially gay friendly area (the city of Chicago, IL). And consider that worldwide, child molesters, murderers, and thieves suffer more persecution than the LGBT community. It should be expected that those who live less virtuous lives would be persecuted more than those who live more virtuous lives. And while devoutly religious people are often typified by stable, responsible lives, LGBT people are often typified by unstable, irresponsible ones. Gay leader Larry Kramer, author and founder of Gay Men’s Health Crisis and ACT UP, made this clear.}
{C17: “I’m a bit staggered by this one. What part of the Bible upholds racial segregation? Is this part of the wisdom Jesus taught? Is this the truth as per Christianity? Because it doesn’t strike me as a Christian value.” ~
R17: Being staggered by a traditional value makes me think that someone is ignorant of history. The Old Testament commands racial segregation, modern reinterpretations notwithstanding. The Old Testament is not my standard, but the New, which is silent on the issue of race. However, left to themselves, most people naturally separate based on race. The predominance of race mixing is due to aggressive propaganda.}
{C18: “So who gets to make these decisions then? The people who vote? Religious organisations? The rights of minority groups should not depend upon public votes and certainly not upon religious groups.” ~
R18: What is being said here? That minority groups and/or Atheist groups should make the decisions? *Somebody* needs to make decisions and laws. Otherwise, we will have complete anarchy, and everyone will suffer.}
{C19: “Define ‘righteous’. I presume Sunbeam means a good God-fearing Christian government? This would be more like a theocracy and would violate the First Amendment. The whole purpose of the First Amendment and the Establishment clause is so that no organised religion can impose its will upon the people.” ~
R19: It’s funny that a British fellow is so concerned with laws of the United States. I like certain aspects of our Constitution and other fiats, while I would certainly change some things.}
{C20: “Nonetheless, there are people who believe God to be a lot angrier about same-sex marriage than anything else (again, I appreciate Sunbeam can only answer for themselves).” R20: The number of people like that has gotten small and is getting smaller every year.}
{C21: “This is interesting, though it would need clarification from Sunbeam, for I am struggling to make the connection between things like feminism, the welfare state, and homosexuality.” ~
R21: This should be common sense. Men have a powerful desire for sex and close and/or romantic companionship. Feminism teaches women that men are oppressors, and so they seek independence from them. The welfare state gives women free money, so they no longer need men for financial support and so leave them. Artificial insemination obviously kicks men out of the family equation. “No-fault” divorce” allows women to instantly terminate existing marriages (two-thirds of those initiating divorce are women). Now without women, men seek a substitute, such as when you get a flat tire you substitute your spare doughnut tire. Here, the doughnut tire is another man.}
{C22: “I can only assume Mehta brings it up because it’s an argument he’s encountered. However, on the ‘God created nature’ point, this would mean God created homosexuality as observed in the animal kingdom.” ~
R22: Why assume that Mehta has encountered this argument which makes Christians look ridiculous, while he could be lying out his rear? Animals have biological instincts to have sex. If an appropriate sex partner is unavailable for long enough, the instinct manifests, whether on a male of that animal species, a man’s leg, a stuffed toy, etc. A sexual preference for a man’s leg or plush toy? Likewise, there are no gay or lesbian animals. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of animal behavior.}
{C23: “In some countries homosexuality is an offense punishable by imprisonment or even death. Historically, Christianity and other organised religions have persecuted homosexuals.” R23: That has nothing to do with the moral code of Christianity and only involves either those who pretend to be Christians or Christians who willingly violate their moral code.}
{C24: “Again, Sunbeam can only speak for themselves, though at one point, as enshrined in the Old Testament, homosexuals were to be put to death. Is this the original Church in action? In a general sense, early Christianity had such a requirement.” ~
R24: It is common knowledge that the Church was not established until *after* the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, which happened centuries after the end of the Old Testament/Covenant. All stripes of Christians agree here. And early Christianity *never* had such a death penalty requirement. Study Church history.}
{C25: “Since marriage has existed as a concept well before Christianity came along, there isn’t a contradiction.” R25: Marriage has existed as a *strictly heterosexual* institution way way way way well well before “gay marriage” came along. It is a complete contradiction of every culture and people in every previous time period of world history.}
{C26: “Except they are, in every legal sense.” R26: So, following that “logic”, if I become married to my jar of dill pickles in every legal sense, you ought to honor that.}
{C27: “Included for the sake of completeness.” R27: Good idea.}
{C28: “Mehta did not say that everyone who has persecuted or bullied an LGBT person is Christian. Second, straight people are not abused for being straight. It is good of Sunbeam to complain about mistreatment of the LGBT community, but to then oppose same-sex marriage is to fall back into a pattern of seeking to deny same-sex couples the same rights as anyone else.” ~
R28: Hemant Mehta did dump most of the blame on Christians, when the reality is that those who have persecuted or bullied LGBT persons are predominantly immature underage people who simply have a Christian background, as opposed to older mature people who are devoutly Christian. Second, straight people *are* abused for being straight. That is, straight men are accused of false rape charges by women, false paternity claims in order to take their money, being suckered into marrying without a prenuptial agreement, then being taken to the cleaners, and being enticed sexually by women, who then reject and ridicule them after getting a reaction…………..
Third, denying people the right to marry someone of their own gender does not equate with denying essential rights, as marriage itself is nonessential. In fact, it is UN-kind to feed into someone’s delusion of thinking that someone of the same sex is a suitable partner for them, and kind to show them the truth. Finally, I am thankful for the attention that Meerkat Musings has given me, and his time and effort to engage in this discussion. Hopefully, people like him, who seem to be open-minded, will reject the insanity of Modernism and revisit old fashioned traditional wholesome values.} xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
K C Sunbeam 